fibi ducks
Active Member
are there any myths about law? Or courts - trials?
Wow, thanks Nadai. This will take a while to digest...Themis
i think this one comes closest to what i was thinking of when i made the first post. i was wondering whether there were ancient trials to find out whether someone did something or not. Here is an answer- Themis saw it all and people could take her word for it. Now i know i'll probably take this too far - but anyway...Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 13. 298 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :"Ay, wicked men never elude pure Themis (Divine Law) : night and day her eyes are on them, and the wide world through above the tribes of men she floats in air, holpen of Zeus, for punishment of sin."
Luis Royo is an artist. His work includes that of my new avatar of Persephone and Hades.Louis Royo? who is this person?
just thinking - i suppose when we say "court" its the same word as the social scene of a king when he's in his palace. So our courts are a descendant of that?
I'm sure that, like when praying to any of the other gods, sacrifice had a part to play in the process. Perhaps if she was given a good enough offering then she would speak to a person directly, otherwise perhaps a person could consult an oracle or one of her priests.i think this one comes closest to what i was thinking of when i made the first post. i was wondering whether there were ancient trials to find out whether someone did something or not. Here is an answer- Themis saw it all and people could take her word for it. Now i know i'll probably take this too far - but anyway...
let's imagine we're back in the old days in greece. a body is found by the village well. Themis knows who did it = she sees all the deeds of no-gooders. so if we don';t know ourselves we just need to ask themis. but as she's not around on a day to day basis we need an oracle for her, or some way of divination.
so were there ways of divination to discover guilt in the old days?
I think maybe during actual trials Themis would actually sit beside the ruling king. Remember that gods were omnipresent so several trials could be happening at once and she would be there. What I meant by my last post was that, since she is all-knowing where crimes are concerned, that if a person wanted to actually locate a suspect, they could consult her priests or make a sacrifice. But during actual trials Themis would sit beside a king; I suppose you could compare this to how the muses would speak to someone. A person could actually hear the voices of the muses giving them inspiration like with Hesiod. I suppose it would be the same anytime any god would choose to speak to a human. Sometimes a god could be invisible and whisper in someones ear like Envy did to punish the sisters of Hermes' mistress when they fell in love with him and thought to plot against their sister(I can't remember their names), or they could be seen only by the person they wished to speak to or appear in another form like when Zeus and Hermes went to the house of Lycaaon or the millions of times Zeus raped his mistresses.perhaps the situation you described on Olympus was mirrored in the human kingdoms: a king would have a woman at his side, a priestess of Themis, who declared in oracles the guilt or innocence of accused men and women.
I guess that divine social arrangements often do mirror human arrangements, so this would not be so odd.
But I can't think of any examples of this sort of priestess in the stories.
Maybe someone else can?
I really want to know how it was decided that someone was guilty or innocent in olden times.
great - this is exactly what i was looking for. now i can picture the scene at court where the king is dispensing justice. and i can imagine what might be going on in everyone's minds.I think maybe during actual trials Themis would actually sit beside the ruling king. Remember that gods were omnipresent so several trials could be happening at once and she would be there. What I meant by my last post was that, since she is all-knowing where crimes are concerned, that if a person wanted to actually locate a suspect, they could consult her priests or make a sacrifice. But during actual trials Themis would sit beside a king; I suppose you could compare this to how the muses would speak to someone. A person could actually hear the voices of the muses giving them inspiration like with Hesiod. I suppose it would be the same anytime any god would choose to speak to a human. Sometimes a god could be invisible and whisper in someones ear like Envy did to punish the sisters of Hermes' mistress when they fell in love with him and thought to plot against their sister(I can't remember their names), or they could be seen only by the person they wished to speak to or appear in another form like when Zeus and Hermes went to the house of Lycaaon or the millions of times Zeus raped his mistresses.
Sounds really interesting. I don't know a great deal about Egyptian myth; I read over a couple of myths during a discussion I had in class several years back about the afterlife. I wouldn't mind getting more information on it, though. Thanks, Rhonda!In Egyptian myth, Ma'at is the goddess of justice and order. Her symbol is a feather, which is placed on scales and weighed against the heart of a person being judged (to see if he can enter the Reed Fields with Osiris, or to be eaten by Ammut.) Not sure if this is the origin of the concept of "scales of justice"...
I recall reading the Contendings of Horus and Set. Re Harakte was a judge and needed to make a decision if Osiris' son, Horus, should become King or if Osiris' brother, Set, should.
Yes.Re was quite ineffectual in that struggle between Horus and Seth. He told them to go away and give him some peace and quiet. that was why Osiris decided the matter in the end.